Alex Biddles
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||November 06, 2008 at 11:41am|email it|370 reads
 

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Stephen Cochrane
November 06, 2008 at 2:02pm

Alex, I hope you're okay with some friendly debate. I agree that a Christian's primary responsibility to their government is prayer and submission. None of the verses you listed address the issue of what believers should do when government abandons its responsibility to punish evil and reward good. When government does abandon these principles it is called tyranny and the Bible appears to give good testimony that God expects us to disobey such authority and remain faithful to him. The first thing that struck my attention was the fact that there doesn't seem to be anything in all of scripture called "civil disobedience." The phrase simply does not exist. On the other hand, there seems to be plenty of instances of it throughout the whole of scripture.

From the Old Testament I found that the Israelite midwives kept babies from death by defying Pharaoh's direct orders to kill them (Exodus 1:15-21). Moses' parents also defied Pharaoh when they protected him from death (Exodus 1:22 – 2:10). Rahab saved the lives of the Hebrew spies by defying the king's orders to tell what she knew (Joshua 2:1-6, 15). Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego defied the king about which God to pray to: God or idols (Daniel 3:12). Daniel disobeyed his king also over the issue of Godly worship (Daniel 6). It would appear from the scriptures that God honored each and every one of these examples of civil disobedience. In fact, Hebrews 11 specifically states that these were all acts of faith (Hebrews 11:23, 31-34, 39).

From the New Testament I found the Magi disobeyed Herod about reporting the location of Jesus. This seems to be on instance when God, Himself, ordered the civil disobedience (Matthew 2:12). When Peter and John were commanded not to preach the gospel, they defied the orders (Acts 4:19, 20). The apostles were eventually jailed for their continued defiance. God's angel committed an illegal act by releasing them from jail (Acts 5:19-25). The Apostles were again arrested for their civil disobedience (Acts 5:27, 28). Instead of repenting from all this civil disobedience of the authorities, they stated that they must obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29).

There is one further incident in the New Testament which also bears listing. We are told that an armed guard was placed around Christ's tomb and a stone placed over the entrance. A seal was also placed on the entrance (Matthew 27:66). It is a well documented fact that these seals were common in the Roman Empire, and that to remove one or tamper with it was a serious crime, punishable by death. Apparently, Christ himself committed civil disobedience by breaking the seal. It might be argued that an angel removed the seal, but that only changes the culprit; not the crime itself.

It seems that each one of these acts of civil disobedience falls under two general categories: saving a life and remaining faithful to God. You said:

Each of them was written by either the Apostle Paul or the Apostle Peter during the reign of the Emperor Nero. This king was considered by several church leaders during and after that time to be an antichrist . . . And yet, God inspired these writers to instruct His people to submit to, obey, honor, and pray for such leaders.”

It should not be forgotten that after writing these passages both Peter and Paul were executed for breaking the civil law. We are to take the whole counsel of God on any issue or doctrine (I know you know that, I'm just saying).

Anyway, in all practicality, I'm not entirely sure how all this will play out in an Obama administration. I'm not saying I will automatically refuse to submit to such a White House entity. I am simply saying that I will not necessarily always be obedient. I have a Biblical responsibility to protect my family and to love my neighbor. I'm not trying to be a fear monger, simply stating that if any policies were to come about that would prohibit me from fulfilling my responsibility to my family/neighbor then it would be wrong of me to not disobey.

How do you feel about the above scriptural examples? Are you always opposed to civil disobedience? How do you feel about the American revolution as it relates to civil disobedience? What do you think of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Have you ever read Francis Schaeffer's Christian Manifesto? If not, you should and let me know what you think of it. I have an extra copy if you want one for Christmas.

Michael
November 07, 2008 at 11:27am
Yes...There Should be some follow up & Friendly [debate], [discussions]....of the Future of America.

Let us Keep Her Beautiful.......No Room For Hate, & Di-Visions, & Fighting over the Elections.

The Christian....or the Church should Pick 1 Candidate.....& not 2,3,4....not Multiple Choice.

The Church should Be United in Choice ....for a President.....This Just Proves the HORRIBLE,
Di-Visions !!

& That ...Just..should NOT BE !!.......So four years from Now ...I Hope We.. will not be Divided in Our Choice
of a Candidate.

The Church has much more IMPACT, & Results if.........They Would Vote United .....They Would
ASSURE...the Office of President every single Time.
golden2100
November 07, 2008 at 1:18pm
             Stephen Cochrane, I can not agree with you more on your narrative. We must be vigilant and keep an eye on this Marxist or forget freedom of all for all time.
Kaleb Price
November 07, 2008 at 1:31pm

Stephen,

Alex mentions Acts 4:18-20 to show that we should not submit to civil leaders when they command us to disobey God so I'm not sure that there is any major disagreement between his post and your comment. You both agree that Christians should pray for and submit to governments.  I am curious about which of Obama's proposed policies you think might prevent you from fulfilling your duty to God, family, and neighbor.  

Stephen Cochrane
November 07, 2008 at 4:00pm

"Alex mentions Acts 4:18-20 to show that we should not submit to civil leaders when they command us to disobey God so I'm not sure that there is any major disagreement between his post and your comment."

I more or less wanted to confirm that disobeying the civil authorities when they command us to disobey God can mean a lot more than just speaking about God in public as was the case with Peter and John in Acts 4.  There are a mulititude of areas where a Christian can justifiably commit civil disobedience.  If Alex agrees with me there, then you're right, me and him are probably on the same page.

 "I am curious about which of Obama's proposed policies you think might prevent you from fulfilling your duty to God, family, and neighbor."

 I'm not going to say that on here.  Alex's blog is not a platform for my rants.  You'll just have to wait and see.

Steward
November 12, 2008 at 10:30am
Kaleb,
How about abortion on demand, Gay Marriage, and Government Funded embryonic Stem cell research just to name a few, all people pay taxes therefor all americans would pay to have research done on dead babies tissues. that is just a few off the top. I do agree however that we should submit to the president and pray for him to see the light but we dont have to like his Ideas.
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